My stepdad keeps saying that Apple is an evil company

Not sure why, does anyone else feel the same way? And could you maybe tell me why you feel Apple is evil and is scamming people off their money? :thinking:

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I mean who’s to say what counts as evil and what doesn’t? Apple at it’s core is just one more business with what some people would consider a cult following at times. As with all businesses, they all have shady practices and they’re drawbacks.

Personally I’m not a fan of how Apple has directed itself the last 5 years, especially in terms of pricing. And the stupid trends they set, how is not including a power brick supposed to help with polution if you still go far enough as to include a cord, the removal of the headphone jack(yes I personally am still extremely salty about this no matter how convient bluetooth headphones get), notches, and just the whole sense of “Apple knows best” and “Apple did it first” maybe 10 years ago Apple did do it first, but as of lately Apple has been offering marginal upgrades in phones with significant increases in price.

Yes, their software is noticably better with the whole ecosystem they have going but because of that developers exclude other OS’s on purpose, the difference between the iOS and Android versions of Spotify are immense and noticably better on iOS to the point where Spotify even removed functionality from the Android varient(swipe gestures no longer exist on Spotify for Android) and has yet to add it back.

So while Apple has innovated in many areas(Camera, the ecosystem, build quality, consistence, long term software updates), they’ve also negativly impacted other non-users simply because they choose to go for a different brand of phone, computer, tablet, or even earbuds. And the worst part is so many other companies copy Apple’s worst decisions and seem to ignore all the good ones Apple makes, and it’s a real shame.

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Your stepdad is not @Exadra37 is he :laughing:

Joking aside, there is probably some element of truth in this and it would probably apply to pretty much all of the huge conglomerates. As much as I love Apple products, and services like Google Search, Google Earth and Street View, until they adopt a principle higher than that of making money they are almost always going to fall short of doing net good. It’s not at all ‘cool’ making billions and not doing anywhere near as good with it as you could - people (and in particular the younger generations) are far more with it and far more progressively minded now.

This is why I love tech and this industry so much, because as developers we have a real chance to make a difference and usher in change. You know what they say, the bad is often a catalyst for good… and they may not know it, but all these companies not taking corporate responsibility seriously are just feeding the desire for others to do better… and I’m sure they/we will! :star_struck:

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True yeah, but every company has to make a profit somehow! :joy:

I kinda do agree and wish that you’d be able to get more for your money, but to be honest it’s fine because Apple has been lowering prices slowly :eyes:

You should tell your dad the following:

Business are never “good” or “evil”. They exist to make money, to kill the competition, corner the market, capture the law regulations, lobby for better conditions (for them), and to pay their people as little as possible.

If a business seems “good” then that’s because its interests align with yours, temporarily.

If a business seems “evil” that’s usually because they are too big and started forcing their rules on everybody else (also not lowering prices like Apple doesn’t want to).


Apple in particular? They have excellently built hardware (sadly in some areas this is no longer true btw). Their software is… eh, let’s not get ahead of ourselves and call it “excellent” but I’d definitely call it “better than most of Android / Windows / Linux have to offer”.

If it wasn’t for these things Apple would be dead in the water.

Their iCloud storage is buggy and VERY slow. Their software craps the bed periodically in funny ways – one example is the Safari tabs on my iPhone and iPad constantly get rearranged! Another example is how a small percentage of users have to reinstall from scratch when they attempt a macOS upgrade. There are many examples. Apple software is now mediocre (but still plenty fast most of the time).

Apple are nothing special, technically speaking, but everybody else is even worse. Did you know that all your Linux desktop programs can record your keystrokes or capture the screen contents without asking you? Did you know what Win10 is not much better?

So while I partially agree with people who actively hate on Apple [that some of their products are bad and that some of their practices are ugly] I seriously am not seeing what other viable alternatives do we have in terms of smartphones and ESPECIALLY in terms of tablets.


Let that not sound obscene or aimed at your dad but through real-world physical table discussions I very often found that people who bash Apple and are proudly announcing they will not buy are usually the people who either (a) can’t afford Apple tech even if they wanted to or (b) are too cheap to invest in devices that are at least more long-lasting than the competition (good luck using your Samsung Galaxy S8 for 3 years; it lags like an 80s age computer).

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Totally unfair and I don’t fit in either a) or b) and I don’t buy Apple products.

Yes lot of the Apps for iOs are better because developers choose to release for iOs first and put more effort on it.

Apple hardware is best… well I don’t agree here, except they seem to have better monitors.

Oh, you know I am still using a Samsung S7 and I will until it has security updates, and they are still eligible for quarterly security updates.

I have told this story many times, but once more:

BMW 320D and Ford Focus 1.8 TDDI share the exact same model of diesel pump(part number) from the top OEM manufacturer Bosh, and as a previous dealer of used cars, I saw countless times people rejecting to buy a Ford because of the known failure of the rotation sensor on that pump that would make your engine go off and never return back to life until you replaced the pump. So, owners of BMW were usually accepting the failure as bad luck, but owners of Ford were usually saying that they would never buy another Ford.

The bottom line is that BMW never got too much affected in terms of reputation along the years by this dangerous and expensive failure, but Ford got hurt badly, and this all come down in the end of the day to the status of each brand.

If you want I can give you many more examples when a brand with status has not is reputation too much affected by errors/failures, but when the same happens in a brand that doesn’t have the same status level the impact is considerable and may haunt the brand for decades.

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Sorry, haven’t thought of you this time in fact. :laughing: I actually was talking about people who actively hate on Apple. Even though sometimes I do put you in that group, I know that you actually are not like that.

I should add another option:

  • They don’t feel well-served by Apple tech and/or have other priorities for their tech.
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What I really hate is the fact that people will diminish or ignore the problem in brands that give status, but will augment and not forgive the same problem in other brands, and that is what pisses me off a lot each time I see people defending a status brand, be it apple, BMW or whatever.

I accept your example but not your conclusion.

The claim that people buy Apple for status is an assumption that I don’t accept. I have nothing to gain by praising Apple, I am not on their payroll, but I had enough table conversations to form (mostly) objective opinions.

Even my mother spoke highly of her iPhone 7 after she had it for 3 or so months; she said she has to charge it at least twice as less often compared to the Galaxy S4 and the Sony Z3 Compact she had before, said the touch was more responsive, screen is brighter, and she actually listens to music on it all the time because she said the speakers are so much better than the previous two Android devices I bought her.

Our fundamental disagreement comes in the word “status”: you claim people buy Apple for status, I claim that many – myself included – buy it for unquestionable quality benefits.

And when people are generally very happy with their product then they will shrug off the occasional problems. That’s pretty natural for all products we use.

It’s like, I completely get your point, but we arrive at different conclusions when analyzing the same situtation. :slight_smile:

If I pay $1500 for something that does 95% of the job well then I’ll learn to live with the bad 5%.

If I pay $300 for something that claims is better than all others then of course I’ll nitpick every defect. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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Different view of the world… I am very pick when I pay a lot and things are not fulfilled, but not when they are too cheap for what they claim they can do, but honestly when they are too cheap for what they claim I also don’t buy them. If someone honestly believes that can buy for $300 what a $1500 product offers, then they are asking for it, aka you cannot expect from a Fiat what you get from a Ferrari.

I tend to buy stuff in the top range side, but I refuse to pay for the brand(forget Apple here). I evaluate what the market as to offer, the specs of the product, and make my buying decision based on quality vs price, and I don’t mind to pay for quality, but I refuse to pay for the brand, be it a car, an appliance or whatever. I can pay a little more for a product because is from a reputable brand, not necessarily one that gives status, think Toyota in cars or Thinkpad in computers, but this price cannot be exacerbated in relation to the other options.

But that’s exactly what a lot of Androids brands claim – that they are cheaper and better than iPhones. I tried them and they didn’t deliver on their claims. Hence I grew very skeptical to most Android devices. IMO it’s an informed opinion; I’ve been on both sides.

That’s precisely what I do, man (minus the specs because they can’t be compared directly; many Android fans touted higher CPU frequencies in their devices yet an iPhone with lower specs was more responsive and lagged less – quality of the software matters).

Apple is just coincidentally the best when it comes to smartphones and tablets, that’s all. :man_shrugging: If somebody else comes along and does something at the same level or better – but with a cheaper price – then I’ll switch tomorrow.

Again, you are kind of presuming that people buy for status or brand. I am sure many do but IMO most consumers are forced to analyze and get the best tradeoff between budget and quality. The fanatic fans are the minority and you should not let their “opinion” twist your view of Apple (or, BMW, or Mercedes, or any other company really).

I made my analysis – and purchases – of iPhones and iPads after having passively “hating” them for years before, by the way.

To circle back to your car example, I’ve known two kinds of BMW buyers: (a) those who buy for the brand and status – they really did get a bit more popular with local girls or whatever their goal was, and (b) those who are interested in the craftsmanship that went into the car and why is it more reliable. I once listened to several guys explaining in excruciating details how much better this or that component of a BMW is and how they prefer the BMW and its higher price because it introduces less problems for them down the road (pun intended :smiley:).

When it comes to iPhones, I think I fall into the (b) group.

Fair, I learned to do the same with time. Not buying something for $3 when the average price is $20; I am 99% sure I’ll get scammed. :slight_smile: And have no problem paying $1500 for something that usually costs $300 if I know for a fact that this thing will save me time and nerves, and improve my productivity during its product lifetime.


Geez, what an essay I wrote before running to the gym!

I still don’t think that you and I disagree. You seem to be displeased with Apple mostly for reasons that aren’t directly related to them – you “hate” the people who simply turn off their brain and open their wallet, right? But, so what if there are a lot of people who blabber uninformed on the net about how good Apple products are?

Form your own opinion with your own analysis, I say.

And it seems that you did that: to me it looks like you don’t put much value in a smartphone and hence $1500 is too much for you. That’s fair as well, but I do a lot of stuff on my smartphone – plus participate in company chats – and it’s my main entertainment device for years so I put more value on it.

If you feel no smartphone is worth over $300, then I can’t dispute that – it’s your preference. But I’d pay up to $2000 for a device that I use for hours every day and I want it reliable, with a good display, snappy and without lags, somewhat durable (with a case anyway), waterproof and with long battery life. That’s my preference. I’m ready to shell good cash for those features because to me this personal device is very valuable for my everyday work and life.

None of this means that I – and many others – just blindly buy because it’s Apple. Apple just happens to be the best for this group of people. For now.

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I agree with your stepdad. I dislike apple for a multitude of reasons which I won’t go into. However all big companies in my opinion are a bit shady as pointed out by a few users on this topic already. I don’t like apple because its different - not compatible with stuff and you need to buy apps to do this and that. In addition the RF radiation thing. In my opinion what makes Apple ‘evil’ is their advertising and of course this…

Save for the Lightning cable which I too hate, I haven’t encountered something as incompatible as you seem to claim. What do you mean?

I’d love to read an article proving that iPhones emit more radiation, do you have one? In all fairness the safest bet is for one to just not have a smartphone at all but for me at least that’s not a viable measure yet…

Electronics can get damaged if they try to draw certain voltage from the battery and if the battery can’t provide it – which happens when the Lithium-Ion battery ages (which happens to all smartphone batteries, Androids and iPhones alike). Your phone might literally catch fire while you sleep. Throttling devices is the lesser evil and is made so the people don’t wake up to a burned house. The objective physics of this is a limitation of our current technology and is not a corporate conspiracy. I’d love it if we had better battery tech but alas, so far we don’t.

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Funnily enough this popped up on my Tiktok feed!

I’d be interested in knowing whether her statement is true - that for every mm the increase is 15%.

I do know that speaking on mobile phones always gave me a headache and so I started using headsets a long time ago. I even have a cordless phone in the house that allows you to connect your mobile to its base station via bluetooth (radiation on home cordless phones is significantly lower than mobile phones). This is the one I have (single station and use it just for the mobile).

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BTW for similar reasons I started putting my phone away from my head when falling asleep – about 40-50cm away – and it did improve my sleep somewhat.

It’s a fact that we sold our souls to the devil, so to speak – we need our smartphones, OK, at least I do. And we never stopped to think what problems might that bring.

“The bill comes due, always”
Karl Mordo, “Doctor Strange” 2016.

Who knows how much cancer or strange illnesses will our generation suffer in their elderly years?..

So yeah, I am under no illusion that all smartphones – iPhones included – emit harmful radiation. :frowning:

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ThinkPad is a status brand these days. Perhaps not in the same respect but it is for sure cashing in on its history and brand after passing through several manufacturers. I have one for work 9 months old, X1 extreme, specced out to the limits i9, 64gb ram, good SSD, 4K touch screen. It had good numbers but next to my 16” i9 MacBook with way less RAM the quality sucks big, screen has horrid colour representation, trackpad is crap, keyboard is crap, camera is crap, mic is crap, there is no words for how much worse the speakers are, the Mac is generally faster feeling to use, the WiFi signal dies dramatically if I stand between the laptop and the access point at <4ft distance from the AP (every one of my colleges also has this issue with the same laptop) … oh and the battery on my macbook lasts no less than twice and typically three times as long. It is in every way I can think of a worse experience for at least 1/3 more at its higher spec. It just about passes as a desktop workstation when docked all the time, as a laptop it is borderline trash. I find it hard to view the MacBook as a status symbol against such cheap (quality not cost) crap. Now as previously admitted the ThinkPad is in some ways higher spec (CPU, more RAM but slower, more SSD but slower) than the MacBook despite generally worse performance in most day to day things like launching apps or turning on so it isn’t an apples to apples comparison, thankfully I’m glad not to have to deal with what that might be like. The MacBook might not be what you want and it might not be the only option out there but seriously the thinkpad in of itself is comparatively dreadful, please don’t kid yourself on this quality nonsense even if you don’t want a Mac, find something better.

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I think that’s a good point about Apple hardware Toby! Macs are generally of excellent quality and often unsurpassed.

My MBA bought in 2012 stills works perfectly - the only difference is that the battery needs replacing (expected - and surprised it lasted this long and it still works plugged in to a power supply) and that it is ‘slower’ than it was, but again within reason of what I would expect of a computer that age.

(The concerns I have about Apple throttling older Macs is actually very recent, and that’s why I have personally been very vocal about it - because I don’t want them to do anything like it or to be complacent about anything which may inadvertently or even complicity lead to the same thing or feeling like it’s the same thing. In fairness, the recent update to Big Sur has fixed many of the issues and it is much faster that it was (but could still do with a few more tiny tweaks and improvements here and there.))

To be fair I do think their hardware is generally really good particularly in areas of experience I care about so can be bordering on fanboi. And while there are perhaps legitimate concerns software side I’m generally happy with the experience and compromises most of the time at least for now. But that ThinkPad seriously pisses me off and at a way higher price my fuse is pretty short for such a comparison. Apologies if that is perhaps came over with overly aggressive sounding tone.

I have also had a lot of good experiences with lifespan except during the 2016-2019 range, I got rid of that thing the second the 16” came out :joy:

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